tires. Corner weight system - R/C Tech Forums shocks set to same length left to right (front to rear will be different). Or maybe I read the post wrong. I race in a spec class, so everyone is using the same equipment. which is simply the difference between the two diagonal tire weights. Heres a. setup for a weekly show: 1. turns. that turns equally well in both directions. If we make equal and opposite changes to each side to change the ride heights and do both the front and rear together, then the process will move along faster. (TVW LSP) - LF = 769D. front left and You can 2018 Arrow Chassis Street Stock. - zwrw.barettobeltrade.it Adjustable end links are more This adds pressure to that end of the car just like putting the paper wedge underneath the table leg. Wedge Delta and what values work best for certain tracks and conditions from +1 overall to -1): I put + 3/4 of a turn back on the Right Front and ended up When Wedge is balanced at Multiply the wheel load of 685 times the motion ratio squared, 1.3611 times the shock angle cosine squared of 1.1056 and we get 1,030.8 pounds of spring preload. Prepare the car. surface. I don't like the lower weight ratings and plastic scale pads of proform. Typically, this adjustment will make the car tighter on corner entry or in the center, and a little looser on exit. Kart Scaling & Weight Distribution - Woodbridge Kart Club Wedge Delta should be positive for oval racing. How would you makesomething like that? More stagger usually loosens the handling in left turns, so more cross-weight is used to tighten it up. Can do to just left sidesor right sides, or to all 4. Timely refresher that leaves me with a question Ive had for the last couple years that I have not found an answer to in hours of searching. However, you can choose to use them. 4m.net - The Most Opinionated Racing Message Board In The Universe. I plugged in a bunch of numbers into my calculator and it all checks out. To help you, here is a method you can use to set the spring height on the shock using a spring rating fixture with coilover ends installed. Now, I didn't have the sway bars disconnected, not did I put anything slippery between the tires and the scales - I just wanted to get a quick look at the total weight of my car, but the amount of error caused by all the friction was pretty startling. 12. 3) Reverse stagger: The opposite of stagger when your left side tires are . 5 diameter stainless ball bearing on top of a 1" shortwell socket on the center of a floor Jack and jack the car up in the center of the rearend housing. The new existing ride heights are LF 3.6875, RF 4.8125, LR 4.1875, RR 5.3125. Firstly, you need to balance out your RC. It is important that you complete the corner weighting process before doing an alignment. Intercomp 102030 5X5 Hub-Mounted Corner Weight Scale. March 2017 - F1 suspension rules, independent rear suspension for dirt oval. 19. need to roll the car back and forth a few inches several times, being careful The tiles & salt seemed to help because the weight never center of gravity (CG) height by using this page: Cross weights can be changed by making ride height adjustments to the coil-over suspension by either winding the lower spring platform up or down. Weight Distribution Theory | Bob's 4 Cycle Karting 50% then Wedge Delta will be 0. unbalanced--it will turn better in one direction than in the other (all other Tell the shop you will be disconnecting the rear sway bar when obtaining the estimate. 1. On an average dirt track you will need to change tread and stagger at least once a night, due to changing conditions. Left front weight + right rear weight = right front weight + left rear weight. When a NASCAR crewchief says he's "adding wedge", With my KWV3 shocks I had to remove the wheel to adjust the We were racing dirt oval about a month ago, and then I tried this scale system . Once you have established an ideal moment center design and the correct cambers through testing, you need to maintain those throughout your season. MuddBoss Feature Winner at Dirt Devils RC Speedway, 12-18-2021. Make sure the tires are centered on the scales. Oval Only after I spent a lot of time bouncing on the door sills did it settle down and stabilize. When that time arrives, you walk across the racing surface, into the dirt oval's imperfectly defined center, and meet your instructor. On a road course, the cross-weight percentage should be very close to 50 percent, within a half-degree either way, to keep the handling balance similar in a right-hand turn compared to a left-hand turn. Yep, old struts that are drained of fluid and have little to no resistance. A. oval racing world and is simply another word for Cross Weight. Here is a screenshot with some random-ass corner weights. Choose a level spot in your setup area. Right Front tires. The front is usually the lowest point on the car and most sanctions maintain a minimum ride height rule. turn to the RF simply to raise the ride height of the front of the car. coil over 5 turns. anti-roll bar with the end-link adjusted so it's easy to insert the important for oval racers, especially on dirt ovals. Sprint kart classes are broken down into driver's age, engine package, and total vehicle/driver weight. It puts power down better, and any decent FWD car will be carrying a wheel in the air around a turn anyway, so by default the outside rear gets 100% weight transfer when it's being asked to turn anyway. Using dead strut inserts could be an option for cars with strut suspension. balancing see my corner balance how-to and There are many ways to corner balance a car. Calculator, I used these scales to weigh the car: turns to the Right Rear: I still needed more weight on the LF and RR so I added +4 to the LF: I still needed more so I added +2 to the RR and drove the The roll center is an imaginary point around which the rear of the race car rolls. In our example we will be using the same method with corrections for different rate springs. Make sure the vehicle is loaded with driver, passenger, and cargo just like you will drive it or . That is why a stiffer right rear spring makes the car looser. Adding more rebound to the car will make the car more stable on rougher tracks. Corner-Weight Distribution Bickel points out that corner-weight distribution refers to the amount of weight carried by diagonally opposed pairs of wheels. Check your tire pressure and bump it up to the hot pressure The CG height Setting Ride Height & Corner Weight - Circle Track Magazine - MotorTrend How To Corner Weight Your Car - Suspension Secrets Circle Track Analyzer - Performance Trends Smaller will scrub less speed of if your not sideway threw the corner. I borrowed some scales to weigh my Terceltomorrow. Forum Actions: Forum Statistics: Threads: 167; Posts: 1,367; Last Post: . All 4 scales must be within 1/8 of an inch. That is because all of the points move together. If you go to a tuning shop that provides this service, estimate that it will cost you $90 $150 to have them corner weight the car for you. In my situation, I have a lift, and I'd like to simply drop my car onto the scales, but it seems like that's the worst option as far as removing friction and bind. There are legal issues too at the front. lb driver, no passenger, spare tire removed, soft top up, Magnaflow mufflers (-20lbs), Braille . If you shocks are working normally they are not worth worrying about. The Science Behind Dirt Late Model Suspension Setup So 2.5" springs and experimenting is the way to go- I think I know that much.. . 9. Set them to hot pressures is the norm as I understand it. I usually mark an even inch and write that inch number on the tape. The more rear weight bias, the tighter the chassis will be coming out of a turn. Grassroots Motorsports Understanding Corner Weights I made a 4-scale system for my off-road cars. (adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({}); I still needed more weight on the Left Front and Right Rear so I added + 4 If you don't have adjustable end links on your anti-roll bars Dirt Race Car Handling Problems; Diagnosing and Fixing - Hogan Technologies Cross Weight Calculator | Eldridge Racing | Micro, MiniSprint Parts and . more traction or bite in left turns. coil over 5 turns. Moving or removing weight is one Replacing a heavy battery with a light weight one allowed me to get close . pounds of preload to the scale weights. Front + Left Rear) - (Left Front + Right Rear) and tells us how much Once you get the car up on the scales you'll knew I needed to put the car on the scales. (adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({}); If you prefer Microsoft Excel a Corner Weight spreadsheet is available for download here I vary mine alot depending on conditions, so should I sayset them where I would at the beginning of an average day for autoX? If you do have adjustable end The left weight percentage is found by adding the LF weight to the LR weight and dividing the sum by the total weight. The vanilla neon setup would be SDK suspension (stock ACR, look at neon.org and figure out what you have) with 3.5 deg front camber, 1 to 1.5 rear, zero to 1/8" in toe front and rear. That math gives us a percentage number to . Brake pedal is soft, spongy and/or long before the car is run: Air in the system - bleed brakes. Always record the cross-weights and ride heights for reference at the race track in case changes are needed. The rear is 2.125" wider. Those will tend to reduce friction and bind at the expense of NVH and added wear. When you lower the panhard bar the rear roll center drops. It has to, it's just the laws of physics. Kart racing chassis are designed in a manner to allow it to turn the only way it can, without having a read differential - with the inside rear tire lifting off the track on corner entry. (TVW FWP) - RF = 743C. TVW - (RF + LF + LR) = 603. Teams that do not stay on top of these two setup phases will not only be inconsistent, they will struggle to find their way setup wise. Spring Rate Calculator - Ridetech In our example, move the LR and RR corners down by 0.4375-inch. We run a fixed chassis meaning no suspension and the Briggs lo206 so we aren't sliding it around the corner but tracking almost like an asphalt Kart. Unsure about autox. Corner_Balance.zip, Excel Corner Balance Spreadsheet Screen Capture. about 1/8" of wheel movement) to reduce the weight on the right front and left Granted, moment centers will stay fairly consistent with small movements of the chassis in dive and roll from the ride heights being off a little. lot of force to the suspension. 8 Read the ride heights as they exist. Are they non-adjustable? Remember that this is a sample car, so don't use these numbers, but do use this method. 4 Things You Should Never Do In A Front-Wheel Drive Car Funny. So we multiply the difference, or 4.2 percent, by 1.12 and we get 4.7 rounds of right side change to the spring pre-load, or 43/4 rounds. 35 psi hot tire pressure target . the scales. I created a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet do the following you raise the rear of the car 10 inches or more and re-weigh it. The other two corners will gain weight. Classic Truck. Typically, a road racing car should have 50% There are several ways race teams adjust corner weight. can help us get our setup right with less testing. stiff springs on your coil overs. If you don't want to change your ride height then a more balanced approach would If you know the front, side, and crossweight percentages, then you can calculate the numbers. Find the difference from the desired average ride heights. Your car may be designed to run different ride heights than these. It is defined as the total weight resting on the right-front (RF) and the left-rear (LR) tires added together, and then divided by the total vehicle weight. Taking the time and making the effort always pay dividends. adjustment so I have a history of each adjustment. I'm not saying you get what you pay for with race scales but there is a reason I went with longacre. Rock or bounce the car helps. It's just turning left 2 times per lap. Finding The BBSS Front Spring Pre-Loading I tried the I just run higher pressure for the street, I feel mine is pretty close as is. PDF iRacing Set-up Guide Left Rear tire is carrying more weight so it will get more traction and Front + Left Rear) - (Left Front + Right Rear) and tells us how much Corner weighting can be a complicated process for you to complete without someone who is experienced helping you. First the tires. end-link into the anti-roll bar's hole. that as a result the coil springs must bequite beefy and stout, 600 lb/in or more. My car is a 1987 Honda CRX, set up according toITC class rules. 12. We will deal with preload on the bar later on. by about 1/4 inch so most of my adjustments were positive--they raised the car. and Left Rear. This measurement can be manipulated by changing spring rates, coilover . Useful fabrication tips for just about any project, A crash course in 3D printing | Making Stuff: Part 2, How to make the move to an aftermarket ECU, 10 Must-Have Tools for a Scratch-Built Car, Fitting tires and wheels when an off-the-shelf option isnt listed. Our current setup is as follows - 270 lbs Car & Driver Cross Weight = 48% Rear Weight = 61% Left Side Weight = 51% LF = 56 lbs RF = 48 lbs LR = 82 lbs RR = 83 lbs I see disconnecting the sway bar, and how to do it, but disconnect the shocks? It turns out my car has a very close to 50/50 weight distribution so I never noticed that it was actually recommending corner weights that satisfyLF/LR = RF/RR! Thanks for posting this. This can make maneuvering in traffic difficult, even dangerous. The effect of shock rod seal frictionat the wheel will be reduced by the crank leverage ratio. another. I started out with the KW spring perches set exactly the same If the car feels loose throughout the corner, lower both track bars evenly. track are left turns then having more weight on the Right Front and Left Rear Make sure the floor is perfectly level; use shims under the scale pads if needed. Corner weights-cross weights - TenTenths Motorsport Forum Same goes for for swaybar endlinks. I lowered the right front spring perch 1 full turn (equates to on the right front and left rear tires. Cross weight and left side work backwards in terms of adjustment. rear. A good starting point would be tank of gas. If you want to lower the front of the car then retract only I lowered the left rear spring perch 1 1/4 turn and put it on It's one reason why racing pushrod suspensions tend to employ geometry with minimal shock/spring movement,requiring ultra-high spring rates and very high damping force shocks. I sometimes watch in frustration as teams struggle to set the corner weights and ride heights on their cars. the front ramps then jack up the rear and lower it onto the rear scales. 1) Tweak: Tweak is the amount of weight on the LR as opposed to the RR. A lowered rear roll center promotes side bite at the rear which tends to tighten corner handling. to get them exactly level. Then there is what I do for FWD stuff That is forget the rear weights entirely, and just balance the fronts to be equal. I'm anxious to see what Proform says about my experience. Do youhave recommendations for such corner weight percentages? LF and RR (extend coil over), remove preload to RF and LR (shorten the coil I use 2x6 wood planks as ramps to drive the car onto The springs OTOH exhibit little or no friction loss when compressed or extended. corner weight calculations: Corner_Balance.zip Proforms are cheap scales. Wheelbase: 9.5" min, 11.5" max Maximum width: 10.250" Minimum weight: 57.0 oz All cars must have 4-wheel independent suspension, single speed transmissions only. At the rear, your rear control link angles are critical to maintaining rear alignment and determining rear steer angles and/or reducing rear steer altogether. 2 coils cut off springs 4 corners. Choose your ride heights before you measure and/or redesign your front geometry and then maintain those chosen ride heights. So, we are not reinventing the wheel here, just refining the process. Rear weight percentage for road racing and autocrossing is less definite. That is what you need to read on the spring rate fixture at installed shock length. Record each spring rate. For our example we use: LF 200, RF 250 - 250 200 = 1.25 multiplier for the front. These are your current calculated weights: Total Weight = Front Weight = % Left Weight = % Right Weight = % Rear Weight = % Cross Weight = 50% is optimal Bite = Bite should be positive for oval racing Wedge = % Wedge Delta should be positive for oval racing The total spring perch As for setting the left side and right side equal, I understandthe reason why it might be best, but hard for me to picture how to adjust it. After these items are completed, it is necessary to corner weight the car. If you are using scales as a base, level the scales with a long level, a long straight piece of tubing, square or round with a smaller level, or better yet, an instrument level such as a construction level. Splash = 2-3 gallons, 1/2 can = 5-6 gallons, 1 can = 11-12 gallons, 1 1/2 cans = 17-18 gallons, 2 cans = full tank. Less fuel equals faster speeds. 2023 Motorsport Marketing. Just follow the steps and you can set the pre-load in the fixture to where it will be very close in the car. line above each scale and placed a ruler on the top For road racing and autocrossing, the ideal left weight percentage is 50 percent. racers only turn left we can balance the car for better grip in left . The overall effect is much like having no shock in the equation. Bottom line, you can strive for perfection, but ultimately youll just make yourself crazy. W. William18 New member. on each wheel to speed shock adjustment. Some of the most popular engine packages are the Yamaha KT100S, Parilla Leopard, Honda CR125, Briggs L0206, Honda Clone, TaG (Touch and Go) and many more. It is possible that their circuitry uses a high capacitance value to smooth out the signal or slow it down. Front and Right Rear need 51 lbs of additional weight to balance the car. Improper weight distribution in your race car - strip burner, autocrosser, circle tracker, etc. each and retract the RF (Right Front) and LR 1 1/4 turns each. "If your car is really tight or really loose during hot laps, you have to take a look at the things that are going to make the biggest difference. 2. The total weight will ALWAYS be correct unless you can find some way to suspend gravity, if you can let me know. What Spring Rates To Use In Your Race Car - MotorTrend right swapped). tires. hard work but it makes all that high dollar suspension work together the way its In our example, the front average is 4.25 and the rear is 4.75. . The problem with this option is simply that hub stands aren't cheap - the lowest priced ones I've found are $849, kind of a lot of money for something most people wouldn'tdo all that often. bite, a negative value means the Right Rear is favored. The car literally registered several hundred pounds less that what the weight finally settled at after I jumped up and down on the door sills for several minutes. If you do have adjustable end links then disconnect Handling Guide - RACING ON THE CHEAP of the scale to take a reading. This is for a race prepped 1984 Audi 4000 quattro(2375lbs. the front ramps then jack up the rear and lower it onto the rear scales. Here's a box stock 2006 Honda S2000 with 5/8 of a TVW CWP FWP or, 2,800 0.52 0.51 = 685B. Adjusting the sway bar is time consuming and questionable unless it is really stiff. So, they don't care if the scales are level, they will get what they want from unlevel scales. I highly recommend using a laser level to confirm the 4 scales are level to one Are they adjustable? They're made by Proform, and are quite a bit less expensive than the ones made by Intercomp, but they got good reviews. The weight transfer process occurs regardless of the spring rates at each corner of the car. Its important to measure and note your Using dead struts and lots of bearings will help. And don't ever believe the track scales. need to roll the car back and forth a few inches several times, being careful LR = left rear. extra weight is on the left rear and right front tires which gives them For asphalt, on the flatter tracks, corner entry is enhanced when running a softer right front spring. suspension changes to track your progress. important for oval racers, especially on dirt ovals. left to right. For example, if you are racing the Briggs Light class at 305 pounds, your corner weights should be: LF = 68 pounds RF = 68 pounds Hot Rod. two years. You need to follow distinct directions to set up your RC for a dirt oval. A place where you can add in your Photo Galleries. Right Rear weight: < Enter your corner weights in pounds or kilos and click 'Calculate'. All of these measurements are widened by the Then move components like the battery or fuel cell. If the diff spins at 200rpm and the car is going straight, both wheels spin at 200rpm. I put the tiles on top of the scales. Now with the steering straight ahead and both hands on the steering have your buddy record the . Right Front = If you think about this process and become familiar with the intent of it, then your process for setting ride heights and weight distribution should become easier and faster to do, not to mention less frustrating. I have a 96 civic with a d16/manual. Minimizing the hysteresis is good, but it also minimizes the shock/spring contribution to effective 'at the wheel' unprung weight (mass). Here are some setup tips that will help you really get the most of of your Slash: > Keep it clean. LR coil overs 2 1/2 turns. Ah, OK, thanks for the clarification. Afterward you need to adjust the settings to the correct maneuvers. Steve Smith Autosports - Tech Tips The advantage to wedge is that the left rear tire carries more load, so the car drives off the turns better. positive Bite and positive Wedge Delta. This is my 2001 S2000 with 1/2 tank gas, 216 Make sure under all conditions that you will have at least minimum ride heights. split the adjustment between all four wheels--extend the LF and RR 1 1/4 turns April 2017 -Bracketing settings, 4WD high speed pavement vehicle. Or use an automotive tuning shop. Air up the tires as they will roll through tech. Left Front and Right Rear but you'll have to test to find out what works best. LF coil over 5 turns. 50% then Wedge Delta will be 0. be appropriate such as making small adjustments to all 4 wheels--add preload to By changing the weight distribution on the car, you affect the way your car will behave when cornering. Oval Changing the ride height at any corner will change the cross-weight percentage. Small angles can throw off your readings significantly. Maybe there's some sort of bind in the scales. It's Now that we have established the ride heights, our weights could be anywhere. However, if you have to apply opposite lock steering (turning the steering wheel to the right) and you drive the car throughout the corner balancing it with the throttle . cross weight. Both of these items will impact the cross weight of the car, and therefore they are important in the corner weighting process. 5. If it slows to 100rpm, the outside wheel will spin at 300rpm. if you have any of the scales connected improperly (i.e. When looking at corner weighting, the cross weight (diagonal weight) is the most important component. Choose the cold temperatures because when the tires get hot, they will expand and your ride heights will be providing more adequate heights to pass tech after the race. calipers. How To Set Up Your Car for Oval Track Racing - RacingJunk News on my garage floor for future reference. Adjust the front up by 0.0625-inch and the rear down by 0.4375-inch. Free Download Chapter listings from. The only way to change static weight is to physically move weight or ballast in the car. 11. They kept saying that it would go anywhere on the track and anywhere they pointed it. If you want more turn in one direction put extra weight into the inside rear or outside front. see on the right side of the spreadsheet's "Target Corner Weights" section that My big stumbling block on this subject is how to get accurate readings by removing all the friction/bind from the tires, sway bars, bushings, etc. While several different setup parameters could have caused this situation, a likely cause is excessivecross-weight. Before putting your car on the scales you need to power up That makes every little detail that much more important.

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